Wetlook World Forum

Message # 58223.1.1.1.1.3.1.2.2.1.1

Subject: Re:Thanks Ed...

Date: Fri 21/06/13 22:54:45 GMT

Name: Maxi of maxiwam.com

Email: maxi@maxiwam.com

Website: http://maxiwam.com/blog / maxiwam.com

By FountainFrolic - Fri 21/06/13 17:29:36 GMT

Website:

By EdR - asplashofglamour@gmail.com Fri 21/06/13 01:36:39 GMT

Website: www.asplashofglamour.com

Does it matter when that person fell in love with the activity? Like many of you. "I became a wetlooker" at a very young age (I estimate around the age of 5) I also believe that a person can be introduced to wetlook at a later time in life. Does a person who "came into this" after their childhood any less of a wetlook lover, simply because they weren't "born into it"? I do not believe that some of us are genetically predisposed to like wetlook. Like any fetish or other interest, it is behavioral and age has little to do with it, other than we are at our most impressionable in our earlier years than in our later years.

But more importantly, I gotta ask, does it really matter that there are women who are personally into wetlook for themselves?? Well I know they do exist. I have had the pleasure of meeting and working with Wetmar. But is she really any different then any other woman? Speaking from my own experience, Wetmar is a friend and a lovely person who happens to enjoy getting wet in her clothes. Other than that, she is a normal woman, with a normal life.

Perhaps the problem is, how we define a woman whose into wetlook. Does that woman need to be born into it? Does she have to exhibit certain criteria? Does she need to act in a certain manner? Is she a fake simply because she was introduced into it by her mate? Perhaps we are being too harsh by trying to define what constitutes a woman whose into wetlook, and perhaps this is one of the many reasons why women do not participate on these forums.

Maybe we as men need to get to understand women better than we do. First thing is women aren't like men. They think differently, they do things in different ways. Perhaps wetlook to them has an entirely different meaning or purpose, which means that if we are trying to define wetlook, we'd be completely wrong or way off, in their view.

Nextly, whats wrong with the appeasers? After all isn't this what we really want? A woman whose into wetlook as much as we are?? Speaking from my experiences, before the internet, I thought I was the only one with this interest in wetlook. I could had never dreamed that there were others out there who shared the same interest. Even then, after discovering that I wasn't alone, I had made my own definitions of what a wetlook woman should be. When you think about it, how we can define what a woman into wetlook should be like, well it would be really no different of how a mainstream guy into porn would define his perfect woman.

When I met Tess, she wasn't into wetlook, like I was, but she also knew what wetlook meant to me. Thats probably an important part of a relationship, knowing and understanding your partner's interest. A woman who really loves you will participate in your interests simply out of love. So I ask again, does it really matter that a woman be into wetlook? If she loves you, she'll fulfill your fantasies with you. In my case, I'm the happiest guy on the planet. Tess has supported me in all of my endeavors involving wetlook (and then some) She is an important part of "A Splash of Glamour" and she works hard behind the scenes.

So in a nut shell, you don't have to search for unicorns, abominable snowmen, or the Loch Ness monster, thinking that will make you happy. There are hundreds of thousands of women out there, all you gotta do is find the one who will love you too, and they will become everything to you.

EdR

asplashofglamour.com

By MK - wamtec@comcast.net Thu 20/06/13 21:38:40 GMT

Website:

You are an extremely lucky guy to have found such a great partner....but you are one of those rare exceptions.

I am sure that everything you say is true....but I still tend to think that your partner may fall into the same category as my wife is....i.e. an amazingly tolerant and willing partner ....but somebody who does not engage in wetlook on her own, without you.

The real litmus test of a true wetlooker is the test that applies to all male wetlook fans....i.e. they were "born" with their wetlook interests and have been  indulging themselves in it ever since they were young children. If you conducted a poll and asked the real wetlookers when was their first experience and how long have they been doing this or been turned on by wetlook....you will get an answer from most people developed their interests in wetlook pre-puberty.....well before then were 10 years old. Most real deal wetlook fans will say they have been turned on by wetlook since they were 5-7 years old.....which is true in my case too....cos I first got turned on by wetlook when my parents took me to the Butlins Holiday Camps in the UK in the early 1960's.....and the campers would play games in the pool and often you would see the Red Coats and campers in the pool in their clothes (that is why the UK comedy show "Hi De Hi" was one of my favorite UK shows, cos it reminded me of my childhood vacations at UK holiday camps).

People do not become "real deal" wetlook fetishists after they meet somebody or when they become adults.....they are lifetime wetlook fans since they were in pre-puberty.....so ask your wife if she indulged in wetlook as a child or before she ever met you, or oonly found her interests after you introduced her to it....because a real wetlook female would have been engaging in wetlook activities since they were a child, because you do not develop  wetlook fetishishism in your adult years....just as you do not become gay only when your are an adult....cos all gay people were have experienced their feelings long before they reached the adult legal age of 18.

I am not so sure your information about Wetmar is correct.....because from what I was told it was not over zealous wetlook fans or stalkers who drove her away......and her main reasons for bowing out had nothing to do with people from the forums....and had everything to do with her husband who was not a fan of wetlook and objected to her wetlook interests, and she was going thru a divorce as a result of her husband who did not appreciate or support her wetlook interests at all. So....I think that adds more creedence to the fact that she was "the real deal".....because she indulged herself for her own reasons and even her husband did not like what she was doing.  I have known several wetlook fans over the years....where they ended up getting a divorce because the husband was the diehard lifelong wetlook fan, and his spouse was neither tolerant nor supportive....but in Wetmar's case this is a rare instance where it was the wife who was the diehard wetlook fan and her husband hated wetlook and did not tolerate or accommodate her interests.

I am not a psychologist (however I do know one prominent psychologist who has been chatting with me for 20 years and happens to be a wetlook fan for over 50 years)....so I just look at historical data and encounters and draw my own conclusions.

As I mentioned....the real litmus test is that wetlookers do not suddenly become wetlook fetishists after the age of 18 or when they meet a a guy who happens to be a wetlook fan......cos all "real deal" wetlookers have been self-indugling in wetlook since they were under the age of 10 years old....so if a female claims to be real deal wetlook fan.....I have a simple question to ask them.....i.e. Please tell me about your first wetlook experiences and at what age were you.....and what wetlook experiences did you engage in in a self indulgement way before you met your current husband or boyfriend.....cos it is feasible that a wife or girlfriend can be totally cooperative and submissive...because that is how things work in the world of S&M and Bondage.....you have Dominants and Submissives....and Dominants are generally born that way...and Submissives are mostly "created" by the Dominants.    Submissives are easily indoctrinated....so there are 2 different roles that males iand females play n the world of S&M. The difference is...in the world of S&M the Dominants can either be male or female....and the Submissives can also be male or female too. In our wetlook world 99% of wetlook dominants are male...and their female partners are the submissives....and the few wetlook dominant females I have enccountered were all crossdressers, transgender people or lesbians. Wetmar is a clear exception to this, because she was the real deal and a wetlook dominant female....but her husband was not willing to accommodate and play the submissive role....so that was a relationship that was not going to last.

I would love to see some wetlook couples on a tv show like "Dr Phil".....and for Dr Phil to ask the female in those relationships if she only found wetlook after she met her husband...because if they really feel the same way about wetlook as guys do...they should be able to describe their experiences as a child and how they first became aware of their wetlook interests and what experiences they had ON THEIR OWN with self indulging wetlook acts before they met their husband......cos I  believe that "real deal" wetlookers develop their interest well before the age of 10....and anybody who claims to be a wetlook fan after they became an adult or found a partner who likes wetlook....that person falls into the category of being a wetlook submissive who enjoys the fun and loves to support her hubby and his interests.

MK

By FountainFrolic - Thu 20/06/13 17:35:43 GMT

Website:

As Anthony and others in the past have alluded to, the fact that there are very few to no female wetlookers here speaks to two basic things, I think.  First of all, men far outrepresent women on online forums in general.  I'm a regular on a college football forum, and although there are probably at least a thousand active regular posters there - I believe there are TWO women I'm aware of, and they post much less frequently than most of the males.  But yet when you go to a college football game, the stands are fairly close to evenly split.  Are all those women in the stadium just to "accomodate their guys?"  No, I really don't think so (I know not, actually!)

Secondly, look at what happened to Wetmar and others.  A woman showing up openly in a fetish forum has a very rough time of it - constant solicitations for pictures and sometimes meetings along with lewd & lascivious remarks from some of the lowlifes who are present (and I'm not AT ALL singling out this forum, the anonymity of the internet encourages trolls who get their jollies from, among other things, saying things to women they'd never DARE say in public, because they know at minimum they'd get slapped hard, and at worst possibly arrested.)

So yes, there are women who are actually "turned on" by wetlook, I can say that with 100% certainty!  She probably initiates wetlook fun even more often than I do, much to my enjoyment!  Never know when the urge will strike her - whether we've just come from an elegant dinner, walked out of the symphony - and on a few occasions where we have reservations for patio seating - even BEFORE we go out for dinner!  For my wife - much of the turn on is for similar reasons as to why I'm turned on by it.  The fact that clothes that cling and sometimes become somewhat sheer when wet can look quite sexy on your partner.  The "naughtiness" factor of doing something (soaking a suit or silk dress along with heels - or for me a sportcoat, tie and dress slacks/shoes) openly in public that most would never CONSIDER doing.  The way wet clothes feel on ourselves and look on each other!

I can't say and won't try to argue that the numbers of females are equal.  But again, I chuckle at those who claim - with nothing but essentially anecdotal evidence - that they simply don't exist.  THEY'RE WRONG, trust me!  

By AnthonyX - anthonyx@jowc.net Thu 20/06/13 15:24:49 GMT

Website:

Still, the observations used to support the conclusions about male vs female interest in wetlook contains some bias.

As I recall, MK has cited statistics in the past which suggest (rather speculatively) that there are perhaps only 20,000-50,000 wetlook fans in the world. That's out of a global population of some 7 billion. Roughly half that population is male, and roughly 70% of the population is "adult", so about 35% of the world population would be male and "eligible" consumers of adult content - on the order of 2 billion. That means that about 1 in 40,000 men in the global population would be in our speculative "global wetlook fans" category. If we were to hypothesize an equal number of women into wetlook as there are men, that would mean 1 in 40,000 women.

So, if you go out into the world and randomly (properly randomly) sample adult women, asking "are you into wetlook?" (suitably presented/worded to get a valid, accurate response, of course), you could easily ask the question of 10,000 women, not see a "yes" answer, and still not violate the assumption of "equal interest between males and females".

I'm not disputing any of MK's observations or facts... he's been working successfully in the business accumulating experience I have not - I have a great deal of respect (and some envy) for that. I'm only challenging the conclusions. While they obviously work well for the purposes of making effective business decisions, I don't think they are valid in a broader context - as a social statement.

When you go out ot hire models, you're not selecting for interest in wetlook, so our speculative "1 in 40,000" statistic would apply; you'd have to have seen at least 20,000 models before you'd have some reasonable chance of encountering just one in the "yes" category, even though it represents an equivalent occurence of a wetlook fetish in women as we've speculated to occur in men.

By MK - wamtec@comcast.net Thu 20/06/13 05:18:58 GMT

Website:

Secondly, Steven nailed it when he said what I have said many times in recent years on this forum....i.e.

"I often wonder how Leon views wetlook now compared to when he started, or MK (or Erik or any of the mainstream producers). Like a chef whose asked to cook when he gets home? You can have too much of a good thing? "

Very true.....if you spend 24 years cooking for yourself in your own kitchen.....as I have done....pretty soon you become less interested in your own cooking...and you prefer to taste what other people are cookling instead. You become less interested in self indulgence and trying to please yourself, cos there are only so many ways to get a model wet and only so many kinds of outfits to use....so you soon get bored with staging things and controling the outcome yourself.....cos hiring models and directing them as per your own ideas, is a bit like gambling in a casino where you know what the outcome will be...cos you are controlling the black jack table and the roulette wheel. So...in my case I started out shooting my own fantasies.....but after about 5 years of that I have done everything I could think of........so I was like a dog chasing a car.....i.e. once I caught the car.....then I could not figure out what to do with it....ha ha. So I then began to grow more interested in what other wetlook producers were doing instead of anything I was directing.

Thirdly, the last subject that Frank raises.......is there such a creature on this earth as the self indulgent non commercial non appeasing heterosexual female wetloooker.......a female who is engaging in wetlook activities purely for her own indulgent reasons....and not for any other motives......which is what most male wetlook fans do......cos this would make for a great reality tv series....cos they have lots of reality shows that go in search of Bigfoot and the Loch Ness monster....and DIscovery Channel recently did a fun mockumentary about whether real Mermaids exists. Real wetlook females would rank right up thjere with Unicorns and the Tooth Fairy. I have been chatting with wetlook fans online since the Compuserve email days of 1988...and chatting with hundreds of models I have worked witth over the last 24 years, and have encountered lots of females and their views on wetlook, and here are my historical stats on females in the the wetlook world.....95% of the women I have encountered as models or wives of friends or customers fall into one of 3 categories

1) The Entrepreneurs, who work as models in the wetlook industty, or have their own websites, so their motives are purely commercial. These are great girls who always work very hard to put in good performances....but this is just "a job" and a great service they provide to the wetlook community. Wetlook to them is just like Horse Racing.....i.e. would anybody be interested in showing up at a horse race if they did not have any money or gambling allowed.....likewise....wetlook models and female website owners would lose all their interest if there was not a financial reason to attend those shoots.

2) The Appeasers or Accommodaters...i.e. these are the wives and girlfriends of wetlook fans....who are very tolerant and accommodate their man's interests and will do whatever they can to push his buttons and get him in the mood for sex. Wetlook is used as sexual foreplay. This is how my wife has been for 32 years with me....i.e. wetlook means nothing to her personally....but she knows I like it and she has always been very tolerant of my wetlook "hobbies".

3) The Abstainers.......I have encountered quite a few wives and girlfrends over the years....who would order my wetlook products merely as "gifts" for their hubby or boyfriend....cos they know hubby likes it....and they admit to me that they hate it........and I remember one lady paid me a back-handed compliment one time after she was ordering my wetlook media for her hubby.....and she said...."your media is really a blessing......cos I can just order this stuff from you to keep my hubby happy.....and then I do not have to do this wetlook crap for him myself any more"...ha ha.....

Thats the 99% of the females I have encountered over the last 24 years.....i.e. if you take away the money aspect and the husband or boyfriend aspect....I have never met any female that has ever wanted to do wetlook scenes on her own without money or a boyfriend being her motivations.

Now.....there are some rare exceptions I have encountered....but those were not heterosexual females....cos some lesbians and transgender people I encountered who were self indulgment wetlookers...but those folks were crossdressers or transgender people who were born male and had had a sex change operation to become a female, and some lesbian couples I met liked wetlook too. But a self indulgent heterosexual female wetlooker who is not motivated by commercial reasons or a husband or boyfriend......thats a "Unicorn" to me.

I am not saying that such a creature does not exist today.....cos we do know of one that once existed ....i.e. Wetmar..... she was really great and was totally into the subject matter for her own personal self indulgent reasons. I never met Wetmar but Graham and other producers have all said she was "the real deal"...but sadly she went the same way as the Tasmanian Tiger and became extinct.

I am not trying to pour cold water on this subject or bum people out, I am merely trying to point out that you will be wasting your time and money if you register at a dating website and think you can find some women who share the same passion for wetlook as you do. The best you can do in life is to find a very tolerant and accommodating partner. Women do have some fetish interests.....especially in the Bondage and S&M arena....but wetlook is not one of the fetishes that turn women on.

Women may get turned on at the site of Brad Pitt or David Beckham in a wet shirt.....but it is not the wet shirt that turns them on....it is who is wearing that shirt and whether they have 6 pack abs. The wet shirt means nothing to them.

Male wetlook fans can look at Bo Derek in a wet shirt or see thru dress and appreciate the wet garments....and they would "tune out" once Bo Derek took off her wet clothes and was naked.

Women would rather see David Beckham or Brad Pitt rip off their wet shirt asap and show their abs.

MK

By Frank Lampard...Stevie G's oppo - Wed 19/06/13 21:17:54 GMT

Website:

In a mild "why are we here on earth" way I have always wondered why or how I ended up it being my thing. I've always been quite open to girl mates, girlfriends, wife about it and never heard any other response than surprise or "that's a new one on me". Which to me is a good thing. :-)

By AnthonyX - anthonyx@jowc.net Wed 19/06/13 20:43:33 GMT

Website:

This is an old argument, but let's have another kick at it...

Men and women have certain differences in approach to things and in communication style (among many other things).

We tend to be more visual in that it's more often the man looking at erotic pictures, watching erotic/pornographic video than women.

But, women are essentially THE consumers of all those Harlequin romances, etc. which are, in a manner of speaking, porn for the female mind.

When it comes to a fetish like wetlook, if a woman gets turned on by wetlook, it's almost certainly because of how it feels... never mind what her guy is doing. All she has to do is fish some interesting outfit out of her closet and hop in the bath. Does she feel weird doing it? Does she need validation from other women that she is not alone/not weird? I don't know, but I'll guess the answer is either "what difference does it make what I do in private" or "that's what I have friends for". Women seem to be able to talk more openly amongst themselves than men do. Add it all up and there isn't the need for women to go surfing the internet in relation to wetlook

On ther other hand, most men need visual stimulation; if there is no girlfriend or wife to satisfy them, they/we seek out pictures and videos of women doing what turns him/us on (wetlook, in our case). Do we think we're alone or weird? Well, those questions are what initially brought me to the usenet groups and ultimately the web. Not to mention the resource it has become for wetlook content.

Do the women who model wetlook get turned on by it? At least a few do, but none have to - they're either getting paid or finding some other reward (maybe she' an exhibitionist, or she's into the clothes she's modelling).

Put all this together and it says that gender representation in this forum says nothing about how frequently the fetish actually occurs in women vs men... if you want an accurate answer, you have to step away from the computer, go out into the real world and do a scientifically and statistically valid formal study - free from any possible form of sampling bias.

So, maybe the "confession of a female" was written by a man, but there is nothing tangible to discount it as an authentic female perspective. In the absence of anything to discredit it, I'll take it for what it purports to be.

By Steven Gerrard - Wed 19/06/13 19:33:49 GMT

Website:

I wonder if wetlook as a fetish is a sole male domain, I think it might be. Don't get me wrong, I know there are women out there who don't mind/care about getting wet as fun or when drunk and enough who will get wet to please their guy but an actual fetish of their's? I'm not so sure. Would be interesting to find out the ratio's. The lack of female genuine online wetlookers makes me wonder.

When I first told my wife about my fetish she couldn't stop laughing, ok ok it IS quite funny, and she admitted to me she thought my fetish might be something harmful like swinging, rough sex, anal or BDSM (bit harsh?) but at the end of the day it's just fun to her and a treat for me to be played at 2-3 times a year. I can handle that.

I am not sure I could handle a female wetlook fetisher. It would kind of ruin it, because for me the buzz is thats it's not mainstream, it's not regular, it's a special occasion and mainly it's not what the female wants to mess up her hair or clothes. My buzz is her coming home in her suit and getting wet because it could wreck the suit or dress, not a shorts and t-shirt on the beach.

I often wonder how Leon views wetlook now compared to when he started, or MK (or Erik or any of the mainstream producers). Like a chef whose asked to cook when he gets home? You can have too much of a good thing? The taboo of it makes it for me.

By AnthonyX - anthonyx@jowc.net Wed 19/06/13 18:43:59 GMT

Website:

http://www.swingingheaven.co.uk/shm/water.html

If only there was a nicely dressed woman and a swimming pool nearby...